New research is being called for on what many believe is the actual cloth in which Jesus was buried, the shroud of Turin, as the Museum of the Bible prepares for an exhibition on the subject. The bloodstained linen, which was scrutinized in with radiocarbon testing, and was believed to have originated between the years and - and thus deemed a "medieval hoax" by skeptics - is now being reconsidered for another round of tests. In what some are calling an " underreported " story, some researchers are calling for new tests to be performed in light of a recent discovery about previous research that was done on the aged cloth. According to a Catholic Herald UK report in May, in the Shroud of Turin Research Project team urged belief that the linen was authentic, writing that no known chemical or physical methods could account for the totality of the image. Yet in , the Vatican permitted the cloth to be tested again and researchers published their findings in the scientific journal Nature , declaring it of medieval origin. But that data has been hidden until recently as other researchers obtained in the findings though a freedom of information request. A re-examination of the data brought about additional questions about the precision of the study and calls for fresh radiocarbon tests emerged.
However, the inhomogeneity of the sample is certainly not a game changer. As I said before, it is more like a game clarifier. Had the British Museum co-ordinators known the order of the samples, and hypothesised the gradient, I think their final conclusion would have been even more conclusive, not less. Hi Hugh, I would like to send you a private message. Could you send me an e-mail address so that I may do so? Cordialement Patrick. Inhomogeneity of the sample means that THE sample in this particular problem is simply a garbage -for whatever reason statistics alone does not specify it.
You cannot make any valid conclusion based on it. Any extrapolation towards the center of the cloth is pointlessbecause: 1 linear regression is only first approximation 2 inhomogenity may be not regular. Either Fanti is right, or C is right or neither of them. C date has been scientifically challenged in peer-reviewed literature and not only -there are many good non peer-revieved papers on the matter, which unfortunately, cannot be cited in most peer-reviewed publications.
So far, no one has challenged Fanti in proper scientific way. We have a sample of two mammals: me and my dog. On average we have 3 legs.
The measured average number of legs of a mammal; is then 3. The C measurement of Shroud sample yielded result after callibaration.
But statistically speaking, one part of the sample is years older than the other. And the probability that this just a statistical error that is that the obtained results were drawn from inherently imprecise -containing statistical errors -measurements of the homogeneous sample -the p-value -is unacceptably low.
This means that if the Shroud had been woven at one time in, say AD -it is very unlikely we would have obtained the results we had. And the hypothesis that the different parts of the Shroud were woven at different times, is absurd.
Then is like the average number of 3 legs among mammals. There are the various not all that I know are included! The numbers are actually a complete mess -almost each result contradicts almost all of the others. Yet here we are being asked to pay to see what it has or has not revealed regarding the Linen and its surviving content of C!
Why bother at all with statistics - which is, after all, a separate discipline from science? Random sampling is the ONLY WAY one can have any degree of confidence NOT absolute certainty whether low, intermediate or high, in the validity of final conclusions about the population, if based merely selecting small samples.
So, yes, not surprisingly, the decision was made to restrict sampling to a corner region that pesky real world intruding yet again! So, non-random sampling of the Linen AND non-random division of the single sample! Er, let me guess. Realistically speaking, the primary purpose was NOT to yield a final gold-standard answer. Yes, a third source of non-homogeneity! Simple eye-balling of results says that all 3 labs came back with a date somewhere between the mid 13th and late 14th century!
That suggests to me that while the non-existent statistical design was less-than-ideal, sob, sob, reflecting the intrusion of extraneous considerations, the actual methodology was reasonably reproducible, probably basically sound. Indeed the answers, even with the modest degree of scatter around mean, were in my humble view remarkably consistent. The ranging shot exercise had served its purpose with minimal disfiguration to the Linen.
OK, so there were inhomogeneities where data spread was concerned, with the possibility of SMALL but significant numerical trends across the width of that corner sample but NOT based on random sampling so therefore statistically OTT.
To which I say: data collection must take precedence, albeit preliminary ranging-shot data first, then checked and re-checked. Are we looking at sampling error?
Or are eternal optimists angling for the intervention of a a mind-boggling supernatural phenomenon - based on the claim of shoddy statistics - when statistics were if the truth be told sidelined, indeed ignored from the outset? Collin, you forget the comments so soon regarding the issue of retesting.
It is only a couple of days ago. Test, test, test. But other testing must now be allowed before another go at traditional carbon date testing. If you would agree to that, then we would be on the same page. Best regards.
Sorry, I disagree profoundly, Robert. We are not on the same page. Indeed we are reading from different books. Yours has additional words. So the next step MUST BE to repeat the dating with a wider range of sampling sites, if only to see whether the previous estimate of age is confirmed. Then, and only then we can return to hypothesis whether that includes blue-sky speculation or not. Colin, you make a point. Science is a noble and legitimate path to the truth. But science is a process, and a broad multi-disciplinary process, not single thread test based.
The truth is the end we are all seeking and different paths can lead to the truth. At this time other testing, that is also scientific in nature, besides just radiocarbon testing, must come first if the truth about the Shroud is to be advanced.
May 20, The controversial Carbon 14 test results. Dating of the cloth has been surrounded by controversy since , when a Carbon 14 test dated it to the 13th century, prompting a flood of articles proclaiming it a fake. Even currently, some of the most "popular" resources report the controversial Carbon 14 results as definitive. Jul 16, The ensuing paper Radiocarbon dating of the Shroud of Turin, The carbon dating was also questioned on the basis that the fragments tested . Jul 21, Since the s, I have been a proponent of the study of the Shroud of Turin - a byfoot linen cloth, and indeed believe it is the authentic burial shroud of Jesus thatliz.com: Myra Kahn Adams.
No one is suggesting to turn away from sound scientifically based research. You must agree, as an honest scientist, that the Shroud custodians essentially have shut down access to the Shroud for scientific research after the radiocarbon testing results were announced.
That, as you MUST also acknowledge has hindered for over 30 years now the scientific quest for the truth about the Shroud. You and Hugh should both now be delighted that true additional scientific studies may in the not too distant future now be permitted. We should all be on the same page for that.
But it must be carefully controlled so that the tragic carbon dating fiasco is not, that is never, repeated. Time for this frontline sceptic, correction, realist, to take a break from the eternal headbanging exercise.
Any shroud of turin second carbon dating think, that
KIndly hold off from spotlighting any of my latest new thinking please Dan, whether communicated here or via email. No, it did not.
Aug 07, The sample of cloth used for the carbon dating (known as the Raes sample) is not of the same composition of other areas of the Shroud. In fact, Joseph Marino and Sue Benford show that there are 16th Century fibers woven into the Raes samples and in the sample taken for the carbon dating (immediately above the Raes samples) - Nov 24, In the s, carbon testing led to a guilty verdict for the Shroud of Turin as a fraud. But researchers who pursued a legal case for the original data say it's far from thatliz.com: Candida Moss.
There was fairly conclusive evidence for the medieval origin of the corner strip taken for analysis, certainly, but not for the entire Linen. That still allows for a tentative conclusion that the entire Linen is of medieval origin, but a return visit for collecting a wider, RANDOM range of samples is needed, at least in the radiocarbon-sceptic world in which we live.
Spokesmen for that second group declared at the St. That second group wants us to view it as soberly science-based while it plays its silly games with sub-atomic physics, invoking protons for this, neutrons for that. Surely we can now move on to dark matter and dark energy. I saw one enthusiast suggesting the image could have been etched by the body of Christ being instantly converted from matter to energy.
My rough calculation was that this would have been an energy release equivalent to 80, Hiroshima scale nuclear bombs. I think that would have laid waste to much of the Middle East. Dating of the cloth has been surrounded by controversy sincewhen a Carbon 14 test dated it to the 13th century, prompting a flood of articles proclaiming it a fake. Now, most scientists and scholars consider the results of this test worthless due to sampling issues see Section II here.
This result prompted an increase in research and generated new data coming from four new testing methods see Section III here. In addition to the new dating tests, there are also three types of external evidence indicating 1st century origin see section IV here.
One more external evidence worth noting is that the reflectance spectrometry revealed dirt on the nose, knee, and heel that containing a form of travertine aragonite-a rare limestone identical to that found in Jerusalem see page 16 here. Theories of Evolution Before Darwin. July 10, July 7, Is Free Will an Illusion? July 3, What is Time? Part IV: Relativity and Time.
June 29, John Lewis. JD Sports. Subscription offers. Independent Premium app.
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Mar 23, The Shroud of Turin may be the real burial cloth of Jesus. The carbon dating, once seemingly proving it was a medieval fake, is now widely thought of as suspect and meaningless. Even the famous Atheist Richard Dawkins admits it is controversial. Jul 23, New research is being called for on what many believe is the actual cloth in which Jesus was buried, the shroud of Turin, as the Museum of the Bible prepares for an exhibition on the subject. Search Shroud of Turin: Carbon 14 dating used in faulty, some say; . Profitez des services de Shroud Of Turin Second Carbon Dating rencontres performants. Oulfa met a votre disposition tous les options necessaires pour vous permettre de rencontrer des milliers de celibataires hommes et femmes Shroud Of Turin Second Carbon Dating: chat en ligne, messages, annonces avec photos et videos. Environnement sain et positif.
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I would like to receive morning headlines Monday - Friday plus breaking news alerts by email. ate newsletter preferences. Shape Created with Sketch. Horrible histories: Why has a Lancashire school's set of grisly religious relics been hidden for years?
Show all 5. Grisly or glorious? A book illustration showing the head of John the Baptist. More than a million people went to see the Turin Shroud when it was put on display in Getty. Comments Share your thoughts and debate the big issues.
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